Today marks the official release of deegie’s new concept EP EXES, and now that it’s out we’re back to give you the thrilling second part of our (my) two-part interview with the 40-year-old lawyer-turned-pop-punk-princess.
If you’re not a true head, you might not have read part one, so you should catch up here. Otherwise, you can read on below. Remember, last week ended with a thrilling cliffhanger where Dan was about to tell deegie how he felt about the song “The One (Dan).”
deegie: He wanted to apologize for, for the way that he acted. Back then, in college. He was 20. I was 20. It was, you know, we were different. There was a lot of context that I got from our conversation that made me have a lot of empathy for him. So yeah, it was a good healing conversation.
Jos: Wow.
Yeah, he has been following the music actually, like all along.
That would be so cool to have someone write a adult contemporary pop punk song about you. Like, that's the dream, I think. What about Eric number one?
No, he hasn't. And I'm kind of surprised because we stayed in touch probably the longest of me and any of the exes. One of the the songs that's coming out on August 9 is actually one that postdates “Eric #1” and my speaking. We stayed in touch until late 2011. And we were friends after the verse two happenings where he broke my heart again, but yeah, haven't heard. If he's heard it, I don't. I'm not aware.
I’m itching to know, when you guys were writing the song, “Old Spice (Eric #1)”, did you start knowing that it was going to be built around that line about the smell of Old Spice?
The process for a lot of the songs has been me and Moodtown sitting down to do a therapy session, essentially, about each person and like, some of them took a lot longer than others, “Eric” being one of them. So we had probably five different you know, two hour chunks of talking about me dating him and what happened and, you know, trying to pull out my oldest dating memories. So trying to pull up like what really happened here. And we couldn't get a hook on it. Like we didn’t have anything, you know, but that fifth session was where we kept coming back to because like, Moodtown’s great about asking, What did it feel like? What did it taste like? What did it smell like? You know, like getting into the senses of whatever the story was. And so we kept coming back to this frickin’ smell of Old Spice.
I think it was the aftershave that he actually wore. I don't know if it was deodorant, per se. But that kept coming up. And finally we were like, wasn't there a jingle? We looked that up and and then Moodtown’s like playing that on guitar and kind of like messing with it and he turned it into the opening riff. And we were like, that's our title. We have to write it around that. So that's how it kind of started.
Does Moodtown wear Old Spice?
He does not.
I know scents are like a really big thing now. Have you kind of evolved your palate?
I mean, I've done some testing of Old Spice lately. The new products are not for me, but I should go buy classic just to see like, really? I mean, that would be the authentic test. But yeah, I don't know. I don't even know what he wears. I think he wears like a Gillette product. I'm not sure.
Oh, damn. You guys should try out some like Maison Margiela or something, like go real fancy.
Yeah, why not?
So you did mention that we are delightful, adorable trolls. And I agree. But there are some cruel people after you. I mean, I can only imagine, because here's the thing. When I was younger, I'd go see like a band that had reunited, I’d be like, ‘these fucking old losers.’ And they're like 35 or something. And now I'm I'm 38. And with Ned and Caleb, I'm just finishing an album as well. I don’t have a plan like you have, you know that none of this stuff planned. But it’s a bit different. As you get older, it's kind of scary.There is something quite, you know, brave about what you’re doing. And I'm just curious about how you’re navigating that?
Ya know, it's like a constant battle, for sure to, like, maintain self worth, throughout the process. I don't know, you have to reach a point where you don't give any fucks anymore. And I'm getting close to that point. I think like, some days I have it. So yeah, that's the strategy with all the social platforms. It's like, it's a lever to pull, I want to be giving myself the most chances to grow this. And so I'm gonna put it out there and have a thick skin about, like, what people are saying about it. Because yeah, there's not a lot of appetite for, especially on TikTok, for anyone over age 25.
Right.
And luckily, I pass for age 30. Because that's what a lot of people guess is like, I'm in my 30s, my early 30s. And it's like, ‘Thank you,’ and also, ‘You’re gonna, you're gonna age to 40 If you're lucky.’ Like what do you think is gonna happen here? So it's a lot of like, kids that I kind of feel bad for, because they're bullying people that they don't even know. And like, what's going on with them? You know, like, probably not good things, if that's the energy they're putting out.
That's true. So what are the things they’re saying? I guess I saw some comments, that I had thought of too, like why did they let this lady sing about Old Spice making her wet in a high school? I definitely did wonder that.
Well, they didn't. I snuck into the high school
Really? That's awesome.
I asked permission. I reached out to my old English teacher that was also Eric's old English teacher. And she now is like the advisor of the school newspaper. I found this because I was looking at like, video club at my high school, basically. And so she was like, ‘Oh, this could be a fun project for the kids, yeah, let's let's talk’. And then the next time I checked in, she was like, ‘Oh, you need to go to the principal.’ So I started asking for permission, and got in touch with like, the school system. And it was looking good. I had a good conversation with the school system, but then ultimately, they kind of ghosted me. And right before the shoot. I was going, I planned the whole trip. My brother ended up being director of photography. And so we had to do it on those dates.
And they finally were like, ‘you can't use the school.’ So we're like, No, we were gonna do Plan B, just like shoot in front of the school. And like, you know, we went to Eric's old house, whatever. But —
Wait you went to Eric’s actual old house?
It's in the video.
This is crazy. People are gonna dox Eric #1. They could.
No, it's fine. But he doesn't live there anymore. Like nobody in his family lives there anymore. But anyway, the day of the shoot, we were at the high school like out in front, and we knew there was like a rehearsal going on. Because I hired string players to be in the video and they were related to this orchestra that was rehearsing whatever. So we noticed like oh, that doors open. Let’s see if we can just get all the way in, and we did.
That's amazing. There's so many details about that that I love, but is that your high school then?
Yeah.
That's so authentic. You know, you could have just faked it. You could have faked all of it, but you went to the actual place.
The videos have been a really fun, like literal trip down memory lane. In a lot of ways. We went to Pittsburgh for the “Never Look Back (PJ)” song, which is where he was from and where we both went to college. So like, I really associate him strongly in my mind with the City of Pittsburgh and it was great. Moodtown had never been so I got to take him to all the spots.
You're really not half-assing any of this, are you? Do you feel like you shoot these videos that are like, good enough to be on MTV? And then do you feel stoked about how many people have watched them? Is it? Is it working in your opinion?
The videos are working pretty well for a baby artist. Like we're getting not insignificant views. They're not, you know, we're obviously not breaking through in a way that like, whatever, Sirius XM radio is gonna play my music yet. But yeah, I think that's like a fun medium. For me, I enjoy making them. I enjoy like coming up with these ideas. And yeah, it's resonating a little bit, it's starting to have a little traction.
I’m really obsessed with the idea of “zero views” lately. This idea of like, of like, you know, starting at ground zero, seeing where it goes. But if you stayed at zero views, do you think you would still be doing this? Or do you think that you would rethink things?
I'll be doing it for 10 years. And I think when I’m 48 to 50, I could reach a point where I could say, I tried the music thing. I did a lot of cool stuff. And like, now I'm going to move on to write my novel, or I move on to write my television show about trying to make it in LA in the music business when you're 40.
That’s amazing. Okay, so a couple of questions with that. I don't want to be gauche. But does that mean you have 10 years that you could do this? Like with savings? Or is there a breaking point that where you're gonna be like, fuck, we need to get jobs again?
Yeah, there could be — it all depends a little bit on the economy, and on how much we can start pulling in, but like, I think we could survive for the next 10 years if we needed to. Yeah, like after that, can we still live in LA, you know, and not have side jobs and just keep blowing money on music videos? Probably not.
Right. And that was my other question is, why do you need to live in LA? In 2024? To do this? I'm just curious.
Yeah, cuz you don't need to. But I think like there's such an energy being around other musicians. And it goes both ways. Because it is competitive. You have to keep your blinders firmly on to not get tripped up by what your friends and peers have popping for themselves. But there is something about like, other people striving to do this and sharing info and like coming together as a community supporting each other’s shows that feels really good here. So maybe it's in New York, or like Toronto or wherever too, but I think it's like really big here.
Tell me what it's like to play a deegie show.
It's so fun. I'm just like, completely high the whole time. I've been training to get better at like managing the adrenaline because it's a lot. I don't know if you've seen a ton. We haven't posted a ton of our live stuff yet. But I'm trying to jump, I'm trying to like move a lot, and just like be really engaged in the energy of the music. And that's hard to do and also have quality in the vocal performance. So I've been like, running, you know, three miles, whatever, and singing the set at the same time to like, prepare for that.
Isn't that what Taylor Swift does?
Yeah. That's a pop star trick.
Well, that's amazing.
It's awful, but but it works. It does actually work to like, make you feel normal when you're in that scenario of like, the combination of nerves, the you know, the lights, the music and like the drums and then like trying to basically do cardio while you're singing on stage.
To be honest with you, I'm just so obsessed with the song “Old Spice” specifically, it's hard to move past it. But what else should we know about the EXES EP?
Yeah, I mean, it is a concept album. So it's meant to be sort of all together. And the last two songs are an interesting juxtaposition. You have “Grey Area,” which is about Jeff who date raped me. And so that's a really like, heavy, suck-the-air-out-of-the-room topic, but I think it's really going to resonate with people who have been through that experience. So I'm, like, dreading but really looking forward to putting that out at the same time. And then the other one is about my fiancee, who was the last person I dated before Moodtown. And who I broke off my engagement with. So yeah, I’m definitely a bad guy in that scenario, but the song is much more like light hearted in tone. So it's just a weird kind of combination. But yeah, I'm excited to get the whole thing out.
And then in September, we're trying to stand up this version of the show, that's going to kind of be a one woman show musical version of the live band show that will have like video montages of pop culture, you know, sound bites from the time, the music of the time that was influential with these relationships, kind of like setting up each one to be like, Okay, why? Why was I obsessed with, you know, being with these guys? Why did I want to get married so badly? Like, oh, Disney movies influenced that, all that kind of stuff. And I'm reading from my original diaries that inspired the songs.
Holy! Good for you, honestly, that you're putting so much of yourself in there. And I'm really sorry to hear that that happened to you. But it’s really cool that you're channeling that. And that's, I think, honestly, that's what makes this like more than just a… whatever. I don't even know how to describe what this project is to begin with. But that really elevates it to something much more artistic, you're putting so much of yourself into it. It’s kind of hard to even…. I don't know, I'm just kind of blown away. Like, I'm sure people like to write things off as being just somebody's vanity project or someone's just kind of delusional thinking they can make it but you're actually like putting these life experiences into it. That's so powerful, and I think that really differentiates it in a way that goes beyond a marketing plan or anything.
Yeah, thanks. Might as well like give something back or like have have the experience transcend in some way. Since it was like so shitty to go through.
Yeah, no kidding, jeez. Wow. So what are you going to do after the EXES era? Is it just going to be like the hubby era and you're going to write an album about Moodtown?
We've we've talked about it we've tried to write about us, but I think the next thing might be this concept of women's studies and like more sort of experiences as a woman in the world. It's all very fuzzy right now but more to come.
I guess my final question is like, what if you get bored of kind of the punky pop, pop punk thing? Would deegie change sounds? Would it still be deegie or would you just change names again? Or is that going to fuck up your brand plan? I mean, there's so many questions right?
Yeah, I maybe maybe maybe I'll change sound at some point. It's actually been suggested to me by like, an up-and-coming pop-punk producer. I was like, ‘Oh, I love you know, this stuff you've done with Charlotte Sands,’ and he was like, ‘Actually, pop-punk is going nowhere right now. Would you ever consider doing more of a like a Liz Phair ’90s thing?’ That was an interesting conversation. But right now we're gonna stick with this and see how it feels. I guess.
I’ve been following that. Specifically the Machine Gun Kelly pivot to pop-punk is one of my favorite things to happen in music in a long time. But I think a lot of those people are now pivoting towards new country. That’s kind of, you know, neither here nor there to me necessarily, but I feel like that you don't want to just do what everyone else is doing. And I think, you know, the 40 year old pop-punk queen is pretty sick niche that you've invented for yourself.
Yeah, we'll see.
deegie’s EXES EP is out now on all platforms.